Alexander_MJ
Members of the break of dawn
Probably no but I would enjoy listening to late 90's Michael singing early 80's songs or Off The Wall.
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Random questions/ thoughts I have- mainly concerning playback and TII
- Iniciador del tema FMJP
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FMJP
HideOuter Senior
I agree, I would love to hear Michael from the mid/ late 90's studio vocals singing songs from Thriller and Off The Wall
Lot's of questions hahaha. I'll give it a shot.
1. Jam and Twymmf I've always found tricky in determining if the vocals were live or not. You are completely correct in them switching between normal album vocals and a different take from some other source frequently.
It is a guess cause I don't know for sure but these are one of the few times I would say they were dubbing lines with live vocals.
My opinion, I'm not exactly sure the whole team behind the audio decisions for the movie, I just know Michael Prince did have a say and supported the audio dubbing decisions so there had to be good reason for it.
I do know from watching his mouth, Jam was lip synced on the 23rd. He mimes every line, even where the vocals from the album track dont appear in the movie, and his mouth is moving in the exact spots the vocals are in the normal track every time
2. Smooth Criminal, I would as well say was definitely performed live on at least the silver suit jacket day, cause that's where all the live vocals we hear seem to come from.
But the 23rd performance appears to be playback, at least at the end in the footage we have after the lean section. Again, same reasoning as jam. Most Notably, if you look carefully, just before the last dance section where the "ho" "ho" "ho" aren't present, he is actually doing it.
Something that I forgot to mention with jam that applies to both to support my belief he was miming to the playback exactly is that if you dub the performances with the band rehearsals and album vocals on top, he does appear to be just miming to that.
You can make the argument that he was just singing all the vocals and parts but without the vocal track guiding him, I don't he'd remember a lot.
The reason you see, most notably in WBSS in the silver suit, the little screens at the edge of the stage, they are telling michael the lyrics because due to the propofol making him technically be awake mentally for 64 days at the time he died, his memory was like mashed potatos. He would not have remembered all those tiny vocal parts if he could barely remember any lyrics.
3. I highly doubt it. Michael performed it twice that day tho and Im pretty sure both were live if I remember correctly.
Also, Travis Payne did an interview with the MJcast last week and stated, he believes that was the only day michael actually rehearsed billie jean cause.... well, Michael knew what to do. It was michaels. The only reason he apparently rehearsed it at all was just so the band could get used to if michael wanted to do something a little different while performing it one night and theyd have to adapt to that mid song and things like that.
Also, Michael was skipping way too many rehearsals in June, which was basically the point where they were rehearsing in as the actual show, like after the band rehearsal and learning the choreography stages, due to just getting high on morphine all the time. That habit lasted till mid june. I'm pretty certain in my thinking, the only dates michael actually performed once getting to the forum was from the footage we have so there. Considering outside of Blue shirt, Silver jacket day was one of the only days where he was actually singing live, I again, even if he did perform it, doubt it was done live.
4. Thriller on red shirt day (people have a habit of thinking that was the 23rd but it was early june where he performed ijcsly. He wore a watch that day and the shirt didnt have the 777 on it at that point) I agree, did appear to be live. I think tho that the performances from that day were meant to be soundchecks but Michael seemed to me to just be high (from the euphoria of the morphine or starting to try ephedrine) cause, most times when he shown up to rehearsals from early to mid june, he had so much morphine he basically couldn't perform and or had it too long before rehearsals to where the euphoria was gone so he was just a zombie.
Let's say you make the argument that he just probably didn't use that day. The withdrawals from it wouldve actually made what I just said worse. He might've not used it that day, which i think might actually be more likely to be the case, but started to experiment with using ephedrine to give him the energy, enthusiasm etc and hide a lot of the effects from the withdrawal while it was effecting him (hence why he seemed fine on the 23rd and 24th but basically the second he gets home the withdrawals in full force)
I went off a little there so continuing the answer, just like human nature, I think most songs he performed were just meant to be soundchecks but because of the effects of certain things, he just got really into the songs and performed fully. But I think his vocals, even tho live, were below average. Hence why like with human nature, the second the song started, they used clips from were he was singing properly and I think thats why they dubbed it. I have always found it odd they used the unedited album vocal track tho.
5. No, Michael never performed billie jean with the jacket and the hat.
One, like i said, there is what travis said about it probably only being performed once.
Two, Zaldy said "michael got to try on the pants which brought a huge smile to his face"
Three, Michael only had 2 days that we saw photos and video of him trying the actual clothes in performances which was smooth criminal and
Twymmf (23rd), and the ijcsly jacket (what he wore in I'll be there in the backup singers part) and the black or white jacket (what you see at the end of black or white where he's instructing orianthi, the guitarist)
four, If you are referring to what kenny said in one of the bonus features, something like "he put the hat on, he put the glove on, wearing his high water pants and you left him alone" I think he's just meaning when michael performs billie jean, its his and you just leave him with his signature stuff for the song and you don't need to do anything else. Again, hence why it was almost never rehearsed.
6. I've spent 55 minutes on this omg hahaha, you're welcome.
No one knows the run. There was a setlist shown for a split second that was identical to the one michael prince gave but still had jam and J5 in it so they definitely ran through the show but I don't think michael actually did.
Going of videos we have and photos here's what I know for a fact was performed.
June 23rd:
Drill/TDCAU (with glasses)
WBSS
Jam
Drill/TDCAU
Human Nature
Smooth Criminal (Going off photos
It looks like it was done twice but
Im not certain. Definitely did the
Lean tho cause he’s wearing the
Specific shoes)
TWYMMF
J5 (Performed twice)
IJCSLY
Dangerous
Beat It
Black Or White
And on June 24th we only have seen and know of thriller, earth song and dangerous.
I personally don't think he performed much on the 24th cause apart from earth song, he didn't even have a headset mic on (most notably seen in thriller) so I think he was literally just doing a few choreographies just for the dancers.
The 23rd in my opinion would be when he went all out.
But yeah, it gets tricky on those days cause the majority of the information is from word of mouth which a lot of times contradicts each other
We only know of michael performing thriller, dangerous and earth song. The rest tho, the probably rehearsed the show without michael, even a couple times
Theres no photos from the 23rd of stranger
Dragón 1996
Baneado
And SIM was sang live in the rehearsals :c
And rewards go to you for trying to state a statement as fact with no supporting evidence
Dragón 1996
Baneado
I see the amateur video in 2009, you not see that dude, but well i guess that i would receive a reply like this.....
Not for stranger. Even if I’m wrong only 3 videos came out from the rehearsals in amateur. Twymmf which was live, beat it and dirty Diana which was playback, and a group of songs that were all playback (had wybt, Billie Jean, etc)
Dragón 1996
Baneado
The amateurs rehearsals of SIM from TII and HWT was leaked in 2009 but the video was erased.
The rehearsal of Dirty Diana is a Band Rehearsal, in another rehearsal he sangs Dirty Diana Live and Beat It is like the HTW with ad-libs live.
The versión of Beat It on TII is a bite different, I would like see this version on stage but well.
Dragón 1996
Baneado
I wonder why Michael don't want accept the coach that AEG offered, maybe because he was angry for the 50 shows or he think they want kill him?
I think this was a stupid decision, he need to put in shape and if he can't do that in 4 years he can't do that in 4 months.
Yes at begining (Abril Rehearsals) he have a "good health" but not for long.
I think this was a stupid decision, he need to put in shape and if he can't do that in 4 years he can't do that in 4 months.
Yes at begining (Abril Rehearsals) he have a "good health" but not for long.
FMJP
HideOuter Senior
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FMJP
HideOuter Senior
You're probably right, I remember this account on youtube that posted amateur audios back in I think either 2013/14, one of the videos was Smooth Criminal and it said June 24th, which is why I theorized that, but I was only a tween at that time, and a new fan so it could have been something entirely different, young fans (myself at that time included) tend to see things different than older fans might lol. the account got terminated I believe but I remember they were one of the first to post rare TII stuff. But my memory could be wrong.
FMJP
HideOuter Senior
Awesome, thank you. Ya I heard SIM was rehearsed on the 23rd aswell- but thats just speculation. I also heard a Travis Payne interview where he stated when he rehearsed it, it was beautiful. I think it was on a TII extra or something like that, I'll have to find it. Ya, the more I read, the more I feel like Billie Jean was only run with Michael a handfull of times given his lack of showing up, and how that song is just Michael; it definitely was rehearsed live just based on the times the film uses his actual vocals. I'm unsure of why the lean wasn't included in the film, unless he like failed or didn't go down that far (which would make sense given his physical shape and age among other things). I think Smooth Criminal was done twice based on photos aswell.
He rehearsed something else on the 23rd, you know the photos of him in the white button down with the 3d screen where its a gradient blue? I'm not sure what number that would be, I theorize it could have been RWY or YANA, but I'm not sure.
It's true though, a lot of information is from word of mouth and a fair amount of it is contradicting, so its hard to know what is and isn't true.
I think I know who youre talking about. ABCthisisit or something like that. There were loads, like earth song and stuff. But it was proven to be fake tho. If I remember correctly, earth song had the demo what about us section, which as i stated in those answers yesterday, watching michaels mouth in the footage, he was singing the normal vocals from the official final track. Thats probably why it got terminated tbh, cause it was just edited audio from the movie.
As response to the photo with the blue background, that's what I was referring to as being J5. It was that blue in Ill Be There if I remember correctly. It might be OTW but I doubt it. In the show rundown his drummer leaked, the background image on the screen was "graffiti animation OTW album art". I also doubt it would be YANA. Once michael started performing a song with a headset instead of a microphone, he never went back to the mic. So I can only guess the photo being a rerun of J5 but it seems the most likely considering that from photos and video, they appeared to be using all images on the screen for the performences.
Still curious about that stranger photo tho. The link is locked, Id really like to see it tho. Ive sent a request for it
Thanks for reminding me about those old "amateur" videos. They might of been fake but I was like 13 at the time and didnt know better and thought they were so cool. I forgot them until now
Incorrect. The one Im thinking of wasnt a band rehearsal. It was recorded at like a garage door think, barely audible. It sounded like what you were saying but.... They just used an extended vocal track of beat it like they did billie Jean. I could be wrong cause it disappeared since 2017 but Im pretty sure it was just unheard vocals like billie jean. The billie jean day michael was actually there for cause he did live vocals for the end of WYBT (they seemed different from how he did it on playback A LOT at least) So it was completely normal for him to use playback entirely while rehearsing, even in ab lib sections that he normally does live. Truth is, apart from the definite Live vocals like twymmf, no body can actually 100% tell if it was a band rehearsal or not
Dragón 1996
Baneado
Is a band rehearsal because michael didn't sang, only the playback without ad-libs and the backsingers.
I dont see the rehearsal of WYB i have to see that.
The amateur rehearsal of BJ is band rehearsal because not are ad-libs, they prove the playback and probably Michael was check all or talking with Ortega the details of the show
PD: When i talk of the TII Version of Beat It i reffer to the amateur version, wherever the audio of the victory tour the lyric was cut to do emphasis.
Album version
They told him don't you ever come around here
Don't want to see your face
TII version
They told him don't you ever come around here
want to see your face
Última edición:
Just got access, lucky was on my phone for 1 minute when you sent so i can respond immediately ahaha
That's interesting, I've never seen that one before actually.
I see why you'd think its stranger, It's the exact pose he used to do most commonly on a second before the opening line.
I believe it might very well be stranger but as I need to keep stressing, no one actually knows in situations like this. It's a photo.
Photos like the one I believe is J5 are tricky, and i still have a tiny bit of doubt cause its going off the screen just being a certain colour. Even tho it's basically all but confirmed cause they used the backdrops while michael performed on the 23rd and 24th. But Theres a 0.00000000000000001% chance like it was something went wrong. Then ones like IJCSLY are basically confirmation of the song. But you can not go around saying something like its fact when your only decent bit of evidence is basically a pose. Like we only saw the june 23rd performance of Human Nature for the last minute he performed it. It could very easily just be human nature. It could even be you are not alone for all we know. No one actually knows and the michael community has a massive habit of taking anything anyone says, as long as it looks and sounds cool and presents it as fact. Like the "he was going to perform you rock my world and bad on certain nights" NO BODY ever said that. Nobody has ever shown the interview they said it was said in and from the show rundown from like the 20th of may, The longest, seemly uncut at all at that point, setlist we have, never had any of those songs on it. Not even in the "additional/optional songs to use". And there were some really odd choices of songs to perform in there so the fact YRMW and Bad weren't mentioned at all, says loads.
Thats a prime example of people literally making up shit off absolutely no evidence supporting it and people take it as fact and ARGUE IT TO HELL.
I don't mean that in any way to you either (OMJD GUY) by the way, I love your way of approaching it. You believe its stranger and things like that but always make it clear that there is doubt and its not based off fact at all
That's interesting, I've never seen that one before actually.
I see why you'd think its stranger, It's the exact pose he used to do most commonly on a second before the opening line.
I believe it might very well be stranger but as I need to keep stressing, no one actually knows in situations like this. It's a photo.
Photos like the one I believe is J5 are tricky, and i still have a tiny bit of doubt cause its going off the screen just being a certain colour. Even tho it's basically all but confirmed cause they used the backdrops while michael performed on the 23rd and 24th. But Theres a 0.00000000000000001% chance like it was something went wrong. Then ones like IJCSLY are basically confirmation of the song. But you can not go around saying something like its fact when your only decent bit of evidence is basically a pose. Like we only saw the june 23rd performance of Human Nature for the last minute he performed it. It could very easily just be human nature. It could even be you are not alone for all we know. No one actually knows and the michael community has a massive habit of taking anything anyone says, as long as it looks and sounds cool and presents it as fact. Like the "he was going to perform you rock my world and bad on certain nights" NO BODY ever said that. Nobody has ever shown the interview they said it was said in and from the show rundown from like the 20th of may, The longest, seemly uncut at all at that point, setlist we have, never had any of those songs on it. Not even in the "additional/optional songs to use". And there were some really odd choices of songs to perform in there so the fact YRMW and Bad weren't mentioned at all, says loads.
Thats a prime example of people literally making up shit off absolutely no evidence supporting it and people take it as fact and ARGUE IT TO HELL.
I don't mean that in any way to you either (OMJD GUY) by the way, I love your way of approaching it. You believe its stranger and things like that but always make it clear that there is doubt and its not based off fact at all
you didn't read my previous responses of facts to do with this is it.
One, that couldve very easily just been the audio recording problem, theyre recording far away from the stage, outside thick cement walls, and remembering the fact the wouldnt even be playing the audio as loud as they would in the actual show.
Two, it sounds like you are talking about the recording from the garage door. I believe that was in late forum time and even maybe the staples.
By that point, as I stated before, Michael Prince was editing the playbacks to make them sound live so that couldve easily been from that
FMJP
HideOuter Senior
I appreciate that. theres also this photo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vBY9SV0ZtoOWZLlgNqZ4XBPWHcr-k2Ye/view?usp=sharing
that looks like a stranger in moscow pose, but that could be me just over speculating lol. I doubt it is YANA just because of where its set in both setlists, it would be either after smooth criminal, or right before Billie Jean, so him wearing that outfit doesn't work if you know what I'm saying- but again, I could be wrong. I know what you mean though. A lot of MJ fans, especially younger or newer ones like to take something and run with it, and they'll say something like you said "YOU ROCK MY WORLD AND BAD WERE GOING TO BE PERFORMED ON SPECIFIC NIGHTS INSTEAD OF THE WAY YOU MAKE ME FEEL", but as much as it pains me to say bc how much I love the song bad: it was not on the run down and neither was you rock my world. Travis payne recently did an interview with the MJcast in which he says that speechless was taken off the rundown and never rehearsed and that that one snippet of him singing it was the only time. I'm very fascinated, I wish they could make a documentary with all the TII info so we can get a clear answer on things like: what was rehearsed on the 23rd and 24th, how many times were certain songs run, what was the latest version setlist (theres the Michael Prince one but also theres the JM setlist from late May). Why were songs like Heal the World, Will You Be There, Stranger in Moscow, OTW medley, and parts of songs omitted from the film. But the odds of that happening are next to none.