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Random questions/ thoughts I have- mainly concerning playback and TII

FMJP

HideOuter Junior
I'm curious, because I had a thought: what if Mj had rerecorded playback for the songs on the HWT, like songs released pre 1991 (TWYMMF, SC, Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, RWY, OTW, DSTYGE) would that have changed your opinion on his lip syncing on the tour? I see it almost as a demonstration he still can sing those songs, just he has difficulty singing them live. I know for This Is It, Michael had discussed rerecording some vocals for select songs with M. Prince, and that would again show he could sing them, but not in that capacity live. What are your thoughts?
 

Dragón 1996

HideOuter Adicto
I'm curious, because I had a thought: what if Mj had rerecorded playback for the songs on the HWT, like songs released pre 1991 (TWYMMF, SC, Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, RWY, OTW, DSTYGE) would that have changed your opinion on his lip syncing on the tour? I see it almost as a demonstration he still can sing those songs, just he has difficulty singing them live. I know for This Is It, Michael had discussed rerecording some vocals for select songs with M. Prince, and that would again show he could sing them, but not in that capacity live. What are your thoughts?
In TII some parts of Beat It was rerecorded, because the lyrics was a bit diferent.

I search the amateur video but i can't find it :(
 

therealCTE

HideOuter Senior
In TII some parts of Beat It was rerecorded, because the lyrics was a bit diferent.

I search the amateur video but i can't find it :(
The amateur beat it video was the normal playback he always used. And in the movie they dubbed it with victory tour vocals. Michael prince said they only made it as far as re recording a few sections to a couple songs, one being stranger in Moscow and Michael said no and if he was going to lip sync he’d use what they always had. The night he died he had also discussed with Michael prince about singing a lot more live than he did prior and they’d talk about it on June 25th
 

therealCTE

HideOuter Senior
I'm curious, because I had a thought: what if Mj had rerecorded playback for the songs on the HWT, like songs released pre 1991 (TWYMMF, SC, Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, RWY, OTW, DSTYGE) would that have changed your opinion on his lip syncing on the tour? I see it almost as a demonstration he still can sing those songs, just he has difficulty singing them live. I know for This Is It, Michael had discussed rerecording some vocals for select songs with M. Prince, and that would again show he could sing them, but not in that capacity live. What are your thoughts?
Now to you.
you’ve obviously heard michael prince’s interview.
he also states in this interview the real reason Michael gave for lip syncing which lines up completely. He wanted his performances to sound as close to the record as possible or he felt his fans were being “sonically cheated”.
He could still sing live. Easily. He proved it time after time
 

FMJP

HideOuter Junior
Now to you.
you’ve obviously heard michael prince’s interview.
he also states in this interview the real reason Michael gave for lip syncing which lines up completely. He wanted his performances to sound as close to the record as possible or he felt his fans were being “sonically cheated”.
He could still sing live. Easily. He proved it time after time
I have heard the interview yes, I think this was more of a "shitpost" than an in depth researched thought, but I understand what you're saying, I know Michael wanted to give a performance as close to the record as possible. I think I was more wondering if his rerecording songs for the tours would change peoples opinions on his lip syncing in say the HWT where over 90% of the show was lip synced on the average night. The last half of my original post I'll admit was a lil all over the place. I'd be very curious to hear the rerecorded sections. I can't remember the full interview, aside from Stranger in Moscow, do you remember, or know which songs/ sections were rerecorded?
 

FMJP

HideOuter Junior
In TII some parts of Beat It was rerecorded, because the lyrics was a bit diferent.

I search the amateur video but i can't find it :(
I think the amateur video you're looking for was just a band rehearsal with playback, Beat it I think was rehearsed as playback until the guitar solo like on the 30th anniversary concert or HWT, if someone has alternate/ better info correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Dragón 1996

HideOuter Adicto
I have heard the interview yes, I think this was more of a "shitpost" than an in depth researched thought, but I understand what you're saying, I know Michael wanted to give a performance as close to the record as possible. I think I was more wondering if his rerecording songs for the tours would change peoples opinions on his lip syncing in say the HWT where over 90% of the show was lip synced on the average night. The last half of my original post I'll admit was a lil all over the place. I'd be very curious to hear the rerecorded sections. I can't remember the full interview, aside from Stranger in Moscow, do you remember, or know which songs/ sections were rerecorded?
I dont know, but the rehearsal of Beat It you can hear was clearly rerecorded, i will give you a example

Album version

They told him don't you ever come around here
Don't want to see your face

TII Version

They told him don't you ever come around here,
want to see your face.

I think he should sing live and no record again the songs he will do playback.
 

Hulkamaniac

HideOuter ¡Invincible!
^ Just because an alternate version was used it does not mean it was rerecoded in that time. They used some Victory tour's vocals, sourced from a multitrack recording. There was a video on Youtube which proved it, which was later removed.
 
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FMJP

HideOuter Junior
I dont know, but the rehearsal of Beat It you can hear was clearly rerecorded, i will give you a example

Album version

They told him don't you ever come around here
Don't want to see your face

TII Version

They told him don't you ever come around here,
want to see your face.

I think he should sing live and no record again the songs he will do playback.
I know what you mean, but as Hulk mentioned, the vocals were taken from a victory tour multitrack recording, there are various times where his actual rehearsal vocals can be heard, but a majority of the other vocals were taken from a prior live multitrack from the Victory tour.
 

Dragón 1996

HideOuter Adicto
I know what you mean, but as Hulk mentioned, the vocals were taken from a victory tour multitrack recording, there are various times where his actual rehearsal vocals can be heard, but a majority of the other vocals were taken from a prior live multitrack from the Victory tour.
I talk of amateur video recorded by fans in 2009, the band rehearsed that day Dirty Diana and Beat It.
 

therealCTE

HideOuter Senior
I have heard the interview yes, I think this was more of a "shitpost" than an in depth researched thought, but I understand what you're saying, I know Michael wanted to give a performance as close to the record as possible. I think I was more wondering if his rerecording songs for the tours would change peoples opinions on his lip syncing in say the HWT where over 90% of the show was lip synced on the average night. The last half of my original post I'll admit was a lil all over the place. I'd be very curious to hear the rerecorded sections. I can't remember the full interview, aside from Stranger in Moscow, do you remember, or know which songs/ sections were rerecorded?
Sorry if it came out like a "shitpost", genuinely wasnt my intent at all. Just trying to spread the reasons michael lip synced and other facts around it that have come out. It's just a shame cause no ones has seen the interview, I mean the whole thing is amazing details, especially regarding this is it era (my favourite era cause just of how interesting it is). Sadly cause people haven't seen it, they are still defending michael's lip syncing with the most bullshit thing I've ever heard. "He had laryngitis". I don't doubt he had it on a few shows but laryngitis is basically a type of cold. It last 2 weeks, NOT 2 YEARS. So yeah, I passionately educate people whenever I can on the lip syncing stuff, I'm sorry it might look a certain way as a result.
As for your second question.
I actually watched the interview again mid this year, if I remember correctly (99.9% sure I am), he only got as far as recording Stranger In Moscow before he called that idea off. He Didn't even do the whole songs. Just doing a few lines.
There was 2 idea's instead of his normal album vocals he always used.
1. Using demo's and different takes (Basically what they did in the movie) but michael basically instantly said no to that.
2. Re-record vocals. Michael, as you know gave that idea ago but yeah, only lasted for a few lines. Michaels response to this was "If we need to use the playback, we'll just use what we always have". By the end it was a thing of when michael would use it, he'd do it different. He'd lets say sing a verse live but do the chorus with playback. Then, I think it was june 24th or even 25th, Michael prince was working extremely on each lead vocal track so it would actually sound like he'd do it live (you see the prime example of this in TDCAU in the movie. It's just the album acapella, no over dubs at the end, and edited a little. Then come just before michael left staples on june 24th, he said to Micheal Prince that he wanted to talk and have a meeting on the 25th with him about playback cause he decided he wanted to sing a lot more live than he used to. I'm not sure as to why but i took it as he was wanting to sing live somewhere between how much he sung on Bad and Dangerous tours.

And yeah, that's all I can tell you off the top of my head of the playback situations in this is it.
As you can tell, I'm very passionate about this is it era. I even watched the whole conrad murray trial twice cause I wanted to find out everything about this is it era that came from the trial.
Actually I found out something new for the first time in years the other day that no one knows.
In the last week, michael was using ephedrine to give him the energy to perform. Now, I dance. I've recently been put on Amphetamines for adhd. I have a problem that my ears feel clogged (to put it simply) 20 times worse than you would experience. I found out its caused by constant jaw clenching due to the stimulants. I rewatched this is it and michael started discribing the era problem and I just yell "OMMMMGGGGGGG. I now know exactly what he was describing". I look up if ephedrine causes bad jaw clenching and boom!!!!!

I went on a little with that hahaha, sorry. I have so much info trapped inside me tehe. Enjoy I think
 

FMJP

HideOuter Junior
Sorry if it came out like a "shitpost", genuinely wasnt my intent at all. Just trying to spread the reasons michael lip synced and other facts around it that have come out. It's just a shame cause no ones has seen the interview, I mean the whole thing is amazing details, especially regarding this is it era (my favourite era cause just of how interesting it is). Sadly cause people haven't seen it, they are still defending michael's lip syncing with the most bullshit thing I've ever heard. "He had laryngitis". I don't doubt he had it on a few shows but laryngitis is basically a type of cold. It last 2 weeks, NOT 2 YEARS. So yeah, I passionately educate people whenever I can on the lip syncing stuff, I'm sorry it might look a certain way as a result.
As for your second question.
I actually watched the interview again mid this year, if I remember correctly (99.9% sure I am), he only got as far as recording Stranger In Moscow before he called that idea off. He Didn't even do the whole songs. Just doing a few lines.
There was 2 idea's instead of his normal album vocals he always used.
1. Using demo's and different takes (Basically what they did in the movie) but michael basically instantly said no to that.
2. Re-record vocals. Michael, as you know gave that idea ago but yeah, only lasted for a few lines. Michaels response to this was "If we need to use the playback, we'll just use what we always have". By the end it was a thing of when michael would use it, he'd do it different. He'd lets say sing a verse live but do the chorus with playback. Then, I think it was june 24th or even 25th, Michael prince was working extremely on each lead vocal track so it would actually sound like he'd do it live (you see the prime example of this in TDCAU in the movie. It's just the album acapella, no over dubs at the end, and edited a little. Then come just before michael left staples on june 24th, he said to Micheal Prince that he wanted to talk and have a meeting on the 25th with him about playback cause he decided he wanted to sing a lot more live than he used to. I'm not sure as to why but i took it as he was wanting to sing live somewhere between how much he sung on Bad and Dangerous tours.

And yeah, that's all I can tell you off the top of my head of the playback situations in this is it.
As you can tell, I'm very passionate about this is it era. I even watched the whole conrad murray trial twice cause I wanted to find out everything about this is it era that came from the trial.
Actually I found out something new for the first time in years the other day that no one knows.
In the last week, michael was using ephedrine to give him the energy to perform. Now, I dance. I've recently been put on Amphetamines for adhd. I have a problem that my ears feel clogged (to put it simply) 20 times worse than you would experience. I found out its caused by constant jaw clenching due to the stimulants. I rewatched this is it and michael started discribing the era problem and I just yell "OMMMMGGGGGGG. I now know exactly what he was describing". I look up if ephedrine causes bad jaw clenching and boom!!!!!

I went on a little with that hahaha, sorry. I have so much info trapped inside me tehe. Enjoy I think
OHHH haha, I meant my original post was more of a shitpost, haha, but ya no I am very fascinated as well with the TII era, and all the little details. I understand why Michael would have chosen to use the album acapellas live as opposed to another, say a demo, or a rerecorded version- because if you're gonna lip sync at least lip sync to what they know right? Like he would have gotten so much shit if on the HWT he came out and lip synced to an alternate vocal take of say Billie Jean? Now that I think about it, I get why he would have just used the album vocals but pitched down or whatever. Honestly I think TII would have been vocally like the DWT in terms of lip syncing, I made a post where I tried to get as concrete info on lip syncing and broke down what would have been lip synced, and what would have been live.
I also think some fans make BS excuses for Michael lip syncing, I'm a performer myself and I've had laryngitis, it lasts for two weeks max then you're good, there is a type of Laryngitis that you can get regularly if you carry the right genetic combination (don't remember the specifics) so its possible he had it a couple times on the tour but definitely not for a whole year like some people say XD.

Since you seem to have a lot of knowledge too on this era, I have some questions for you:
- Do you think Jam was dubbed in post production, because I've been making some TII stuff for my channel and I listened to the center channel and the vocals switch between what seems to be live vocals and playback quite often, what are your thoughts on this?
- I'm positive Smooth criminal was rehearsed live, also listening to the center channel vocals, the timing they switch between playback and live makes me feel that he sang live but they dubbed it in post.
- Billie Jean in the film was rehearsed live, but I'm curious if he rehearsed that song live for all the rehearsals or just that one
- I am also convinced that Thriller was rehearsed live aswell- watching his mouth movements, the words and ad-libs don't match up if that makes sense- what do you think
- Theres a Kenny Ortega quote that says Michael rehearsed Billie Jean in the hat and Jacket- do you think theres any truth to both the legitimacy of this quote, or the statement itself.
- Finally, do you know what was run on the 23rd/24th of June? Because I've heard conflicting things saying the full set was run the 23rd with the big numbers on the 24th, but I've also heard that only half the set was run the 23rd and the other half on the 24th.
I'm a very curious person so I'll always take whatever info i can lol.
 

Dragón 1996

HideOuter Adicto
OHHH haha, I meant my original post was more of a shitpost, haha, but ya no I am very fascinated as well with the TII era, and all the little details. I understand why Michael would have chosen to use the album acapellas live as opposed to another, say a demo, or a rerecorded version- because if you're gonna lip sync at least lip sync to what they know right? Like he would have gotten so much shit if on the HWT he came out and lip synced to an alternate vocal take of say Billie Jean? Now that I think about it, I get why he would have just used the album vocals but pitched down or whatever. Honestly I think TII would have been vocally like the DWT in terms of lip syncing, I made a post where I tried to get as concrete info on lip syncing and broke down what would have been lip synced, and what would have been live.
I also think some fans make BS excuses for Michael lip syncing, I'm a performer myself and I've had laryngitis, it lasts for two weeks max then you're good, there is a type of Laryngitis that you can get regularly if you carry the right genetic combination (don't remember the specifics) so its possible he had it a couple times on the tour but definitely not for a whole year like some people say XD.

Since you seem to have a lot of knowledge too on this era, I have some questions for you:
- Do you think Jam was dubbed in post production, because I've been making some TII stuff for my channel and I listened to the center channel and the vocals switch between what seems to be live vocals and playback quite often, what are your thoughts on this?
- I'm positive Smooth criminal was rehearsed live, also listening to the center channel vocals, the timing they switch between playback and live makes me feel that he sang live but they dubbed it in post.
- Billie Jean in the film was rehearsed live, but I'm curious if he rehearsed that song live for all the rehearsals or just that one
- I am also convinced that Thriller was rehearsed live aswell- watching his mouth movements, the words and ad-libs don't match up if that makes sense- what do you think
- Theres a Kenny Ortega quote that says Michael rehearsed Billie Jean in the hat and Jacket- do you think theres any truth to both the legitimacy of this quote, or the statement itself.
- Finally, do you know what was run on the 23rd/24th of June? Because I've heard conflicting things saying the full set was run the 23rd with the big numbers on the 24th, but I've also heard that only half the set was run the 23rd and the other half on the 24th.
I'm a very curious person so I'll always take whatever info i can lol.
The 23 june he rehearsed the 50% of the setlist,i don't know how many songs he rehearsed the 24, but he did earth song i think he rehearsed until ES, because he looks tired that night and he wants to care his shape to the shows.
 
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FMJP

HideOuter Junior
The 23 june he rehearsed the 50% of the setlist,i don't know hoy many songs he rehearsed the 24, but he did earth song i think he rehearsed until ES, because he looks tired that night and he wants to care his shape to the shows.
From what I understand, they ran the big numbers on the 24th (Thriller, Dangerous, Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song,- and I heard Smooth Criminal but odds are thats not true) But also I think they finished off the set on the 24th, so I'm not sure really.
 

Dragón 1996

HideOuter Adicto
From what I understand, they ran the big numbers on the 24th (Thriller, Dangerous, Heal The World, Will You Be There, Earth Song,- and I heard Smooth Criminal but odds are thats not true) But also I think they finished off the set on the 24th, so I'm not sure really.
It's a shame they did'nt put HTW or WYB in the film, but they put MITM.

Maybe he looks sicks in that numbers and don't want the fans see michael in that estate.
 

FMJP

HideOuter Junior
It's a shame they did'nt put HTW or WYB in the film, but they put MITM.

Maybe he looks sicks in that numbers and don't want the fans see michael in that estate.
I think a majority of the reasons things were cut is because of time restraints, so I've heard, I'm most sad about stranger in moscow because we have photos of him rehearsing it on the 23rd, and that short snippet from the forum.
 
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