¿Consideras oportuno seguir comentando su arte/legado después de que haya fallecido o no?

[pussycontrol]

 

[pussycontrol]

Joé tronco!, asi da gusto con lo bien que expresa esas sensaciones en palabras que a algunos nos cuesta tanto, o directamente no puedo expresarlo asi de bien.
Da gusto en fin.

"Speed Demon, es menos una canción y mas una cabalgada excitante de alto octanaje. Es pura adrenalina con líneas de bajo de pistones bombeando y energía cruda que corre directamente dentro de tus venas".

 

[pussycontrol]

Dotes actorales, antología:

 

[levis]

Wow, you're a real pleasure, expressing those feelings in words that some of us find so difficult, or that I simply can't express well enough.
It's a pleasure in the end.

" Speed Demon is less a song and more of a high-octane, exhilarating ride. It's pure adrenaline with piston-pumping basslines and raw energy that runs straight through your veins."

But for...fk's sake, I always roll my eyes when I hear about Dirty Diana and sinister atmosphere. Such romantic theme of the femme fatale can be found from Byron to Baudelaire, and Michale's song atmosphere is the same, the way his voice tells the story of trying to resist to fall into temptation and his character knows that he cannot, is so god.damn.alluring.

 

[pussycontrol]

Y en ese tema Dirty Diana cuando escucho-digamos el motivo riff guitarra que suena a lo largo de la canción que va junto a ese teclado etéreo, siento muy similar lo que decía Beethoven del inicio de su 5ª Sinfonía que escuchaba AL DESTINO llamando a su puerta (o así).

 

[levis]

And in that song Dirty Diana when I hear - let's say the guitar riff motif that sounds throughout the song that goes along with that ethereal keyboard, I feel very similar to what Beethoven said at the beginning of his 5th Symphony that he heard DESTINY knocking at his door (or something like that).

I am relying on my internal response when I listen to his songs and I love how his voice is the main character in the songs, the instruments are complementing his storytelling. This describing word,,storytelling,, is over used somehow when we talk about his vocal qualities, but I get it. The way he is accentuating some words, or how he,,spits,, between his teeth in the same time letting his gorge to roar in the most beautiful melodic way, the way he weaves the layers of the tension- I'm talking here about DD, then you have his guttural and seductive oh's and no's, in the end,,aianaa,,
...For me the bass is his second voice, and I think that he liked to express himself through the bass, it has a certain echo, and weight. Yes, I love those soaring and ethereal keyboards.
I'm not so good at music theory and instruments, I just express the emotional impact I feel. The fact that he described in his Moonwalk how he started the melody for We are the world gave me the response I felt it when listening to his own penned songs- he knew how to express sonically human emotions. Thus when I hear the first sounds of DD I see in my mind's eyes a woman's silhouette that comes like a shaddow, slowly, and I hear seduction's sound. Soon enough I will be banned because I talk too much,?

 

[pussycontrol]

levis: I'm not so good at music theory and instruments, I just express the emotional impact I feel.
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Suelo decir lo mismo, lo que expreso está basado en ese feelin de manera espontánea e informal, creo que -al tiempo-es suficientemente descriptivo, o eso espero.
Me gusta mucho como el propio Michael les daba pauta a sus músicos con instrucciones intuitivas tipo, quiero que este teclado suene, evoque un amanecer: de hecho en la música clásica siento claramente esto en La Mañana de Grieg.

 

[pussycontrol]

 

[pussycontrol]

Entiendo que al tener que competir con él hizo que se reservara, preservara su vida (la de Sananda) hasta sentirse realmente listo para entrar en escena, con toda la responsabilidad.
Tremendo. ?

 

[levis]

Entiendo que al tener que competir con él hizo que se reservara, preservara su vida (la de Sananda) hasta sentirse realmente listo para entrar en escena, con toda la responsabilidad.
Tremendo. ?

...I liked only one of his songs, that's it. A while ago I've listened a short interview with him and it left me with a really bitter taste, blaming MJ for not having a good career. Meanwhile anyone that learned and followed MJ's steps and influence was liked and promoted with the full speed and were loved and overhyped by the media.
This man always gave me the strangest vibes. Drugs and psychological problems arent taken into consideration?.
You can't blame others for your own failures, but hey, it seems that MJ can be blamed.
Because the media started to mock MJ's talent even with the unseen success of Thriller, let's search some reviews about his Bad album...but unfortunately no one cares to look in the past, to have a full picture, such stories would not be believable any longer.

 

[pussycontrol]

Tal como entiendo, es mas que nada que su megaéxito de Michael, llegó a eclipsar su carrera de TTD-como por otro lado pasó con tantos otros que como ahora sabemos, procuraban no publicar un disco en las fechas en las que lo hacía Michael Jackson.

pd: luego lo miro mejor pero recuerdo relatos positivos hacia Michael por parte de Sananda del estilo de que le considera un genio de hecho.
Para mí, mas allá de esto, Sananda me parece un músico mas que destacado (aún con su enorme ego al inicio al menos), mas que Lenny Kravitz* que creo está un tanto sobredimensionado, pero oye, que también me gusta y me parece muy chula su música.

*el otro damnificado por los talentos de Michael y O(+> en la época.

 

[levis]

As I understand it, it's more than anything that his mega-hit, Michael's, came to overshadow his TTD career - as happened with so many others who, as we now know, tried not to release an album at the time Michael Jackson did.

PS: I'll look into it later, but I remember positive stories about Michael from Sananda, such as how he considers him a genius in fact.
For me, beyond this, Sananda seems to me to be a more than outstanding musician (even with his enormous ego at the beginning at least), more than Lenny Kravitz* who I think is a bit exaggerated, but hey, I also like his music and I think it's very cool.

*the other victim of Michael and O(+>'s talents at the time.

It was a discussion with Questlove and here Sandana had nothing good to say, a recent discussion, perhaps from last year.
A person using praising words about another doesn't necessarily mean being honest about it, but more like a simple psychological trick to enhance his own image. Implying that MJ might have been very guilty of things, and that the record label knew about it, I don't want to continue what he said.

I saw Terence way back in the days and even if I wasn't interested in MJ back then, he seemed to me a hybrid MJ+ Prince. Lenny Kravitz seems to be the same hybrid.
He might be a very talented musician but music is one art form that can really reach our souls.
But this strange vibe never left me and I didn't follow his career, something was off with him even back then so I couldn't enjoy his songs or voice or presence ( i'm not talking about ego but about the feeling that something is deeply wrong with someone, )

 

[pussycontrol]

Vaya, es muy intenso la percepción que tienes sobre él (me recuerda dicho sea de paso, a la manía que tienen muchos a O(+> por aquí).
No sé, sin quitarle importancia, relevancia a la clara inquina-por lo que te leo-que le tiene en los últimos tiempos, y que entonces- si es así- me resta desde luego hacia su persona, empero esa extraña vibración de que algo está profundamente errado no la percibo, pero da que pensar esa observación, sí.

Decía que en casos polémicos hago un esfuerzo por separar persona y artista, y a mí a lo largo de los años su música me ha aportado muchas emociones, sensaciones de alto calibre digamos, (sobre todo en los 90 y primeros 2000).

 

[levis]

Wow, your perception of him is very intense (it reminds me, by the way, of the mania that many people have for O(+> around here).
I don't know, without downplaying the importance or relevance of the clear animosity - from what I've read of you - that he has had towards her recently, and that then - if that's the case - certainly diminishes my feelings towards her, however, I don't perceive that strange vibration that something is deeply wrong, but that observation gives me pause, yes.

I was saying that in controversial cases I make an effort to separate the person from the artist, and over the years his music has given me many emotions, high-caliber sensations, let's say, (especially in the 90s and early 2000s).

I am the last person to be interested in the private life or personality of someone and to judge his artistic one because of that (I made an exception with MJ to understand this whole phenomena). But it seems that TTD's inner turmoil transpired to me very clearly. To be more clear when I saw him back in the day behind the nice music with nice lyrics I just saw and felt a very troubled guy. For example I could never enjoy the guy from REM. To find out later that he also dealt with problems. When Placebo was,,hot,, I've listened to them, I even went to their concert, but somehow I always felt such heaviness and depression when I was listening to them. Which was confirmed why when someone told me that Brian was a depressive guy.
He clearly said in that interview that because of MJ his career wasn't as he deserved. Which again is not fair to say because I repeat, the world was already searching for a replacement for him, as Quincy said once, because they didn't know what to do with such success, they never saw something like this, thus they pushed him down from his pedestal.
Any such animosity I could have towards others is born from my personal response to them. And I'm feeling bad that I insist in writing my point of view, and he makes you feel joy...

Because even if nowadays everyone knows about the concept of public persona, the public mask is in fact normal for anyone of us, it's not reserved only for the,,upstairs,, people; but our real self transpire for some people. No matter how crafted this mask is, it wears the traits of our true self. Before I've started to read about MJ I could see that he is a very ambitious man, in his eyes you had that fierce look, even if his smile was big and beautiful. And the same, the deep melancholy in his eyes can be seen many times, behind the smile. Hence the eyeglasses covering his eyes in many of his public appearances, for mystery, for having privacy, for hiding such emotions. And later on his whole face was a mask, the sign of someone who suffered beyond comprehension. But he always gave me an authentic vibe and a feeling of comfort.

 

[pussycontrol]

Al tiempo, hay mucha gente que percibe por decirlo coloquialmente, mal rollo en la persona de Michael, el tópico de hecho le mostrado al mundo como ya sabes: raro, friki,...en este caso se debe mas a la repetición, insistencia de los medios , e incluso de sus propias RR.PP que en mi opinión han sido mal gestionadas en tanto que, como sabemos, él quería mostrar a las masas el mayor espectáculo del mundo, que hablen mal o bien de mí, pero que hablen (ese adaggio consabido /dichoso).
Jackson sí, era una persona fuera de lo común para bien o para no tan bien, era una persona excéntrica seguramente no tanto como han insistido y manipulado los medios atribuyéndole rarezas que no existían de hecho (pero es aquello de que Michael propició ese tipo de noticias por lo que he referido antes),
Taraborelli dijo una vez Jackson es menos raro que lo que el público piensa que es, pero mas de lo que él mismo se percibe, al final, no sé con qué quedarme la verdad, esnecialmente porque -en efecto-no le conocí en persona, ni mucho menos fui alguien del círculo cercano, evidente.

Con Sananda, le percibo -al hilo de los comments que has puesto- una persona con mucho ego (artístico por lo menos), ya, aparte esa atribución tan grande de responsabilizar a Michael de su menor éxito, a gran extremo, me sorprende de veras y quizás, al decir esto, no está viendo que la causa principal está en otro lado, a saber: discos buenos pero desde los 90 alejados del puro mainstream (véase típicamente los sonidos tan distintos, las atmósferas, los variados registros de voz, tonos, de Neither fish nor flesh.)..todo ello lo hace menos accesible a mi modo de ver, y ahí estaría para mí, el meollo del asunto.

Luego, también es cierto, que ya sobre todo mediada la década pasada e incluso en la primera de este siglo, comenzó a desmarcarse de los grandes sellos, del panorama mainstream, quiero decir él mismo lo buscó, lo quiso así, dejo el par link del otro post a propósito de todo esto que estoy comentando y que explican muy bien todo ello.

 

[levis]

Thank you Pussycontrol, for not tearing me apart because I let myself be unleashed here. Yes, there is this trend with interviewing people that have things to say about MJ, and the discussion is guided towards negativity. With this artist it is the same. One of Bob Marley's kids complained also, some videos are blaming MJ for the life Sly Stone chose to have, see, I will not be surprised to see further that they blame him for the climate change.
I do not rely on Taraborelli at all. This book appeared right when MJ proved that his appeal and talent weren't exhausted with Thriller. One particular snippet from his Bad tour contains this comment from a tv someone, with somehow menacing, wording that soon enough Taraborelli's book will appear to show/expose things behind the scene. I can describe T. with approximate lyrics from Dangerous song, the double-talk, weird insinuation masked under the appearance of sympathy. Yes, none of us knew the man, MJ, but this is also a construct cleverly used to put things in question when it's about him.

Now regarding what you pointed out, the fact that some talented people chose to retreat themselves from mainstream to say so, I remember the image of Dangerous album cover- where the music industry is shown as a huge snake with its open mouth, an empty deserted dangerous world that steal souls and through the choice of painting it like a bird-queen- the bird is not randomly chosen, it's the butcher bird that impales it's pray for later consumption, it reminds me a scene from Only lovers left alive by Jarmush. When the main character hears this lady singing he asks himself who is this singing bird and says,, I hope she doesn't get famous, she is too good for that,,

as in fame that eats you alive.

 

[pussycontrol]

levis: . I can describe T. with approximate lyrics from Dangerous song, the double-talk, weird insinuation masked under the appearance of sympathy
Traducción: Puedo describir a T. con una letra similar a la de la canción Dangerous, el doble discurso, la extraña insinuación enmascarada bajo la apariencia de compasión.
-----------------------------
Escussi, aun traducido no entiendo lo que quieres decir en la comparativa con la letra de Dangerous, en concreto lo que te subrayo, ¿qué apariencia de compasión hay en la letra del tema?

No, yo tampoco me fio de Taraborrelli (de muchas cosas de su biografía), pero en esa frase concreto le doy algo de credibilidad en tanto que sí que pasó bastante tiempo con él, quizás mas en los primeros años, adolescencia, primera juventud, antes de llegar a ser la superstar total.

Y bueno, lo de culparle por la mala vida que eligió en mayor o menor medida, del genio Sly Stone* es ya la chorrada mas grande que un piano de cola, juas!

*reciente y tristemente fallecido, lo recuerdo aquí también ya que se le menciona.

 

[levis]

My way of expressing myself is to be blamed. Sometimes the ideas are piling up in my head like this and when I try to put them out no wonder that what I really want to say it's a mess, this is why I edit my responses often. T. - I was comparing him with the woman from Dangerous song- she has her mouth smoother than oil, but her spirit like a two-edged sword. It seems that T is exaggerating his relationship with MJ, and yes as you said they met for a little while before Michael's immense success. From so many people accounts we can have an idea about M. and for me he seems quite a,,boring,, geeky man, who indeed started to need oxygen tanks besides the times when he was relying on sleeping stuff, he was indeed interested in the Elephant man as Lynch remembered when they worked together for the Dangerous teaser. What was a stupid strategy to make him appear eccentric which perhaps started as a joke, unfortunately took the ugly turn. He was enjoying cartoons, movies, playing with water and ?(like in the Three Stooges movies), reading, quite boring activities for the adult world that means for many people becoming, serious, indulging in adult excesses and activities and so on. And I consider him many times being a big troll...I mean when he was in Japan in that official meeting during Bad tour first leg with officials and press people and he was with Bubbles sharing a cup of tea, yes, he was trolling...

 

[pussycontrol]

 

[pussycontrol]

levis: What was a stupid strategy to make him appear eccentric which perhaps started as a joke, unfortunately took the ugly turn. He was enjoying cartoons, movies, playing with water and ?(like in the Three Stooges movies), reading, quite boring activities for the adult world that means for many people becoming, serious, indulging in adult excesses and activities and so on. And I consider him many times being a big troll...I mean when he was in Japan in that official meeting during Bad tour first leg with officials and press people and he was with Bubbles sharing a cup of tea, yes, he was trolling.

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Para mi gusto, opinión no era nada aburrido, quiero decir era un friki (o mejor pirrado de la fantasía) y con eso me identifico totalmente, prefiero ese divertimento mil veces a los -como refieres-excesos adultos sobre todo en el fumeke (porros incluidos) y/o marcada ingesta de alcohol ( amén de, en no pocos casos, de otras drogas, claro).

Lo de Bubbles en la reunión nipona aquella, lo veo mas como Michael Jackson siendo Michael Jackson=una persona con destacado tono excéntrico (pero guay) saliéndose claramente de la hoja de ruta de las convenciones sociales al uso. La excentricidad fue una baza que usó en el juego de su presentación al público, prensa pero creo realmente que era una no impostada, salvo cuando él mismo hacía extender-vía representantes o lo que fueran-ciertos hábitos que como digo se salían de la norma, (sin ser delictivo, claro) y que mas pronto que tarde, le salió el tiro por la culata.